So Where DID the Guard Go?

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:48 PM, William Graham <cyfyguy at gmail.com> wrote: Hello folks, I've been reading the lists for ages- thanks for the help. I'm now one my second 'hard read' through BOTNS after half a dozen or so 'casual reads' since its publication. I get tripped up on the fourth sentance. Roche indicates, "The guard has gone". The popular discussion on this page has historically been "Who asks, 'But why would the guard leave?' ?" in the next paragraph. While that discussion is very useful for introducing us to Wolfe's love of removing the net from underneath his readers' high wire, I cannot seem to find any place where those who have gone before have asked the more basic question: "Yeah, where DID the guard go?" The obvious answer is that he's patrolling, a possibility supported by the fact that Vodalus fires his weapon, but never indicates at whom. The issue however is that our apprentices are surprised to see the guard gone. If leaving his post to patrol were common, why the confusion over his absence? V doesn't seemingly fire at the volunteers, the dialog between he and Badger and Thea support this, and only three of the volunteers (those pursuing Eata) could have possibly arrived at the site before Sev anyway. So where's the guard, and why did V fire his weapon? -WHG3 _______________________________________________

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> wrote: William - I believe that this question is answered in the "Short Sun" trilogy. At least tentatively. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:48 PM, William Graham <cyfyguy at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello folks, I've been reading the lists for ages- thanks for the help. I'm now one my second 'hard read' through BOTNS after half a dozen or so 'casual reads' since its publication. I get tripped up on the fourth sentance. Roche indicates, "The guard has gone". The popular discussion on this page has historically been "Who asks, 'But why would the guard leave?' ?" in the next paragraph. While that discussion is very useful for introducing us to Wolfe's love of removing the net from underneath his readers' high wire, I cannot seem to find any place where those who have gone before have asked the more basic question: "Yeah, where DID the guard go?" The obvious answer is that he's patrolling, a possibility supported by the fact that Vodalus fires his weapon, but never indicates at whom. The issue however is that our apprentices are surprised to see the guard gone. If leaving his post to patrol were common, why the confusion over his absence? V doesn't seemingly fire at the volunteers, the dialog between he and Badger and Thea support this, and only three of the volunteers (those pursuing Eata) could have possibly arrived at the site before Sev anyway. So where's the guard, and why did V fire his weapon? -WHG3 _______________________________________________

On May 1, 2014 9:34 PM, "William Graham" <cyfyguy at gmail.com> wrote: LOL! It figures- four sentences in and I have to commit to reading another thousand pages to get half an answer! That's Wolfe for ya! -WHG3 On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>wrote:

William - I believe that this question is answered in the "Short Sun" trilogy. At least tentatively. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:48 PM, William Graham <cyfyguy at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello folks, I've been reading the lists for ages- thanks for the help. I'm now one my second 'hard read' through BOTNS after half a dozen or so 'casual reads' since its publication. I get tripped up on the fourth sentance. Roche indicates, "The guard has gone". The popular discussion on this page has historically been "Who asks, 'But why would the guard leave?' ?" in the next paragraph. While that discussion is very useful for introducing us to Wolfe's love of removing the net from underneath his readers' high wire, I cannot seem to find any place where those who have gone before have asked the more basic question: "Yeah, where DID the guard go?" The obvious answer is that he's patrolling, a possibility supported by the fact that Vodalus fires his weapon, but never indicates at whom. The issue however is that our apprentices are surprised to see the guard gone. If leaving his post to patrol were common, why the confusion over his absence? V doesn't seemingly fire at the volunteers, the dialog between he and Badger and Thea support this, and only three of the volunteers (those pursuing Eata) could have possibly arrived at the site before Sev anyway. So where's the guard, and why did V fire his weapon? -WHG3 _______________________________________________

Roche indicates, "The guard has gone". The popular discussion on this page has historically been "Who asks, 'But why would the guard leave?' ?" in the next paragraph. While that discussion is very useful for introducing us to Wolfe's love of removing the net from underneath his readers' high wire, I cannot seem to find any place where those who have gone before have asked the more basic question:

On 5/4/2014 4:34 PM, Andrew Mason wrote: I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was. (The presence of the citizen volunteers suggests that either the guard is quite often absent, or his presence is ineffective.) _______________________________________________

On 5/4/2014 3:34 PM, Andrew Mason wrote: I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was. (The presence of the citizen volunteers suggests that either the guard is quite often absent, or his presence is ineffective.)

I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was.

On 5/4/2014 7:51 PM, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote: On 5/4/2014 3:34 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:

I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was. (The presence of the citizen volunteers suggests that either the guard is quite often absent, or his presence is ineffective.)

Remember the saying about 5 buildings per living inhabitant of Nessus; how many of those 5 building's former inhabitants are now interred somewhere at the necropolis? That's a lot of graveyard per guard.

On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Mason <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com>wrote: I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was. (The presence of the citizen volunteers suggests that either the guard is quite often absent, or his presence is ineffective.) _______________________________________________

I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was. (The presence of the citizen volunteers suggests that either the guard is quite often absent, or his presence is ineffective.)

From: Andrew Mason

I'm sure that Short Sun (specifically In Green's Jungles) does indeed tell us where the guard went; but I'm equally sure that this was not the answer Wolfe had in mind when he wrote New Sun; he wasn't planning that far ahead. So we can still ask what his original intention was. (The presence of the citizen volunteers suggests that either the guard is quite often absent, or his presence is ineffective.)

Okay, I'll bite - when and where does it tell us? I can't think of anything in In Green's Jungles that references current events on Urth. There are references in Return to the Whorl, and even a visit to the Necropolis. But that must have been later, as Severian already had Triskele.

David Stockhoff wrote: After looking at the chapter again . . . my assumption has always been that the guard was paid off.

Gerry Quinn wrote: Okay, I'll bite - when and where does it tell us? I can't think of anything in In Green's Jungles that references current events on Urth. There are references in Return to the Whorl, and even a visit to the Necropolis. But that must have been later, as Severian already had Triskele.

Gerry Quinn wrote:

Okay, I'll bite - when and where does it tell us? I can't think of anything in In Green's Jungles that references current events on Urth.

IGJ Chapter 21, 'The Red Sun'

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Gerry Quinn <gerry at bindweed.com> wrote: From: Andrew Mason Gerry Quinn wrote:

> Okay, I'll bite - when and where does it tell us? I can't think of > anything in In Green's Jungles that references current events on Urth.

IGJ Chapter 21, 'The Red Sun'

Ah right, that figures. - Gerry Quinn _______________________________________________