The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each other as kids and call them stink bombs.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The spiny orange of Able's bow. Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew. Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality> plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower> on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous> tree </wiki/Tree> or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft) tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex> sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1] <> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak> in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple". The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France> settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans </wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3] <> Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc." Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax practice._______________________________________________

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew. Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality> plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower> on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous> tree </wiki/Tree> or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft) tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex> sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1] <> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak> in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple". The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France> settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans </wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3] <> Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc." Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax practice._______________________________________________

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote: From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on the same stem. .

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. — Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew. Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality>? plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower>? on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous>? tree </wiki/Tree>?

or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)

tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex>? sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1] <> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak>? in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple". The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France>? settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans

</wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3] <>? Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc."

Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax

practice._______________________________________________

Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about dioecious plants? Is there even a single example? Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on the same stem. .

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. — Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew. Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality>? plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower>? on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous>? tree </wiki/Tree>?

or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)

tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex>? sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1] <> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak>? in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple". The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France>? settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans

</wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3] <>? Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc."

Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax

practice._______________________________________________

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote: It's not really a claim. I wouldn't call it a claim. I do have reasons why I say it, yes.

I wrote:

Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about dioecious plants? Is there even a single example? Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on the same stem. .

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. ?

Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.

Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality>? plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower>? on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous>? tree </wiki/Tree>?

or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)

tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex>? sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1] <> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak>? in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple". The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France>? settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans

</wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3]

<>? Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc."

Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax

practice._______________________________________________

Then would you mind elaborating on those reasons? An example of such a plant would be helpful. I'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows are dioecious, and very few have been cultivated. Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

It's not really a claim. I wouldn't call it a claim. I do have reasons why I say it, yes.

I wrote:

Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about dioecious plants? Is there even a single example? Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on the same stem. .

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. ?

Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.

Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality>? plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower>? on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous>? tree </wiki/Tree>?

or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)

tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex>? sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1] <> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak>? in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple". The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France>? settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans

</wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3]

<>? Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc."

Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax

practice._______________________________________________

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote: I didn't know that. I am actually a very ignorant person. I would have to modify my statement in light of that knowledge. I have no doubt that you are correct when you say this, Some plants that have male and female flowers on seperate stems seem to be ancient cultivers. These plants tend to be useful for food, drugs, as material for making tools etc. Good examples include cannabis and osage orange. I have to say that while this makes sense to me, I don't expect it to make sense to everybody. I have some ideas about history and deep history that are seriously at variance with the versions generally accepted these days, though (coincidentally or not) they are basically the same as Gene Wolfe's views on the same subjects. I do not know whether he agrees with my opinion expressed above: I hope to ask him some time. I suspect that he does or would. .

Then would you mind elaborating on those reasons? An example of such a plant would be helpful. I'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows are dioecious, and very few have been cultivated. Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

It's not really a claim. I wouldn't call it a claim. I do have reasons why I say it, yes.

I wrote:

Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about dioecious plants? Is there even a single example? Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on the same stem. .

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. ?

Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.

Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality>? plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower>? on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous>? tree </wiki/Tree>?

or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)

tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex>? sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1]

<> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak>? in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple".

The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France>? settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans

</wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3]

<>? Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc."

Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax

practice._______________________________________________

I can't argue with your new formulation, especially after you gave the examples I requested. On the other hand, it's easy to think of ancient cultivated plants that have flowers with both male and female parts--legumes, most cereals, fruits of the rose family, cotton, and flax--and others that have separate male and female flowers on the same plant--squashes, the calabash, and for a Wolfean connection, corn. Of course, if you ever learn Gene Wolfe's thoughts on these subjects, I hope you'll share them on this list. Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

I didn't know that. I am actually a very ignorant person. I would have to modify my statement in light of that knowledge. I have no doubt that you are correct when you say this, Some plants that have male and female flowers on seperate stems seem to be ancient cultivers. These plants tend to be useful for food, drugs, as material for making tools etc. Good examples include cannabis and osage orange. I have to say that while this makes sense to me, I don't expect it to make sense to everybody. I have some ideas about history and deep history that are seriously at variance with the versions generally accepted these days, though (coincidentally or not) they are basically the same as Gene Wolfe's views on the same subjects. I do not know whether he agrees with my opinion expressed above: I hope to ask him some time. I suspect that he does or would. .

Then would you mind elaborating on those reasons? An example of such a plant would be helpful. I'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows are dioecious, and very few have been cultivated. Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

It's not really a claim. I wouldn't call it a claim. I do have reasons why I say it, yes.

I wrote:

Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about dioecious plants? Is there even a single example? Jerry Friedman --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on the same stem. .

These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient cultivers. .

The spiny orange of Able's bow. ?

Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick of osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.

Maclura pomifera From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous </wiki/Plant_sexuality>? plant species, with male and female flowers </wiki/Flower>? on different plants. It is a small deciduous </wiki/Deciduous>? tree </wiki/Tree>?

or large shrub </wiki/Shrub> , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)

tall. The fruit </wiki/Fruit> , a multiple fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit> , is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is filled with a sticky white latex </wiki/Latex>? sap </wiki/Sap> . In fall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor similar to that of oranges </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1]

<> The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak </wiki/Windbreak>? in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, "hedge apple".

The trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or "bow-wood", from early French </wiki/France>? settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs and bow-making by Native Americans

</wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3]

<>? Meriwether Lewis was told that the people of the Osage Nation </wiki/Osage_Nation> "esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it." Many modern bowyers assert the wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this purpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are also known as "bordarch" trees, most likely originating from a corruption of "bois d'arc."

Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1) avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax

practice._______________________________________________