Orchid

More from my reading of BOTLS. First just a titbit, showing how nicely Wolfe interweaves things; while Silk is at Blood's house, he hears a band playing 'Brave Guards of the Third Brigade'. Much later, we discover that Oosik. commanding officer of the Third Brigade, was at that party; the piece was presumably being played in in his honour. But my actual question is this. Kypris tells Orchid that now the person she loved (Orpine) is dead, she must find someone else to love. Does anything ever come of this? I can't recall it doing so, but it sounds as if it's meant to prefigure something.

No takers on this one? Actually, I misstated it slightly; Kypris doesn't 'someone', she says 'something', which may make a difference. I'll look out for any possible payoff as I go through the series. Meanwhile, though, another Orchid-related question. Silk says 'All the gods know that I pitied her [at Orpine's funeral]' and Kypris/Chenille replies 'All the gods don't know. One does. Two.' The one is clearly Kypris herself, but who is the other?

Nothing springs to mind.

I thought she meant the Outsider. - Gerry Quinn

I am not nearly as familiar with Long Sun as BotNS but I'll give it a shot. In my opinion, Kypris' advice to Orchid is actually advice to herself. Her beloved Pas has been deleted from Mainframe and now she must find another object to love. As Kypris has become a part of Hyacynth, I believe she is refering to a character who has a part of Pas within him, namely, Silk. It is the Silk-Hyacinth love story she is prefiguring. "Something" implying an object is a funny reference. Kypris, from our perspective is not a person, she is a thing, a computer program. How do computer programs view flesh and blood people?

Of course! Why didn't I see that? I guess because people in Viron neglect the Outsider, it didn't occur to me Kypris would be thinking of him. but of course he was worshipped on Urth - and interacting with Silk would have reminded her of him.

Could be. I take it she really is trying to help Orchid, but she may well be letting her own case guide her thoughts. (Though what you say brings in questions about the meaning of the series as a whole, which I carefully haven't raised yet.)

I don 't think 'something' is too odd; it just implies that the object of her love needn't be a person. For Mint, for instance, it seems, centrally, to have been the city.

As things, not people. At least, Scylla does. But Scylla, despite being a goddess, is immature. It seems clear however that other gods do not, and wise persons be they human or chem or something else view each other as persons. I think that is generally the case in Wolfe's works. - Gerry Quinn

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Could be. I take it she really is trying to help Orchid, but she may well be letting her own case guide her thoughts. (Though what you say brings in questions about the meaning of the series as a whole, which I carefully haven't raised yet.)

I don 't think 'something' is too odd; it just implies that the object of her love needn't be a person. For Mint, for instance, it seems, centrally, to have been the city. Mint gave up 'five very great things' to become a sibyl. As a general, she lost more; in RttW she is confined to a wheelchair. It is still not entirely clear what the object of her love was; what seems intensely clear is that she was no less born to serve than was Marble. - Gerry Quinn

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And being hunted, perhaps. - Gerry Quinn

For me, the Long Sun character of Mint seems loosely patterned on Joan of Arc. If the main text is weak or unclear on her motivations, perhaps a study of the Maid of Orleans could help fill in gaps. (obviously they had different futures).

Do the 'fake' gods ever mention the Outsider? Otoh it certainly looks like she's saying something - but what does it advance the story if she's, f.i., refering to Pas?

He seems to be in the Chrasmological Writings, but I haven't heard of any incidences of them mentioning him apart from this. But we don't get all that much face time with them anyway, or reasons why the Outsider might be discussed. As I noted in another post, Kypris is being hunted by Echidna and the gang. It may be that the Outsider's association with the broken and the disparaged resonates with her at this time. - Gerry Quinn