Horn's abilities — Urth Net

Andrew Mason26 Oct 2011, 16:53as archived

Horn's abilities

↰ answers Daniel Petersen · by quotation

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Daniel Petersen wrote: What's the deal with it being semi-physical? “Is it 'out of body' even though you can physically influence stuff in the place you 'go' to” ?It's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen (because it's not as simple as time travel on one hand or visions on the other, etc.). ?And Wolfe's introduction and development of it narratively (especially in In Green's Jungles) is one of the most jaw-dropping, mind-bending experiences I've had in reading.

I think it has something in common with an aquastor. It's clearly not exactly the same; its source is different, and so are the precise abilities of the travellers. But Malrubius says that though he is a dance of particles, it's still possible to touch him, because all matter is a dance of particles - and I think that works for astral travellers as well.

Daniel Petersen26 Oct 2011, 16:59as archived

↳ in reply to Andrew Mason

Hm, very interesting and thought provoking indeed. I like it. -DOJP On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Andrew Mason <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com

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wrote:

Daniel Petersen wrote:

What's the deal with it being semi-physical? Is it 'out of body' even though you can physically influence stuff in the place you 'go' to? It's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen (because it's not as simple as time travel on one hand or visions on the other, etc.). And Wolfe's introduction and development of it narratively (especially in In Green's Jungles) is one of the most jaw-dropping, mind-bending experiences I've had in reading.

I think it has something in common with an aquastor. It's clearly not exactly the same; its source is different, and so are the precise abilities of the travellers. But Malrubius says that though he is a dance of particles, it's still possible to touch him, because all matter is a dance of particles - and I think that works for astral travellers as well. _______________________________________________

Andrew Mason26 Oct 2011, 17:07as archived

↳ follows Daniel Petersen · by subject

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James Wynn wrote: There is simply no other reasonable explanation, given the context, for Pike's sparkly disapperating ghost and the astral flying Oreb Silk also meets upstairs at a time when Oreb's wing is damaged. Combine that with Rajan appearing in the grandmother's tale, and the timelines not matching for when Horn left, Hide left, Hoof left, and the ages of Sinew's sons -- well, dream-travel is time travel.

I'm not wholly convinced by that, because of the vagueness of dates in the Sun universe generally. GW in one of the appendices to New Sun complains that the people of that age have a strangely vague conception of time; and there's something in OBW which suggests people on Blue aren't entirely clear about how long the year is.

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Not give the subsequent appearance of astral Oreb.

Oreb appears before Pike. Silk wakes up to see 'Oreb' flyibng out to the window, then, if I remember rightly, talks to Mucor for a while, then goes downstairs and talks to the real (contemporary) Oreb, then hears the bed creaking, comes upstairs again, and sees PIke. PIke and Oreb aren't together; and given that Silk only saw him flying out of the window, it;s not clear that it is Oreb at all.

António Pedro Marques26 Oct 2011, 17:48as archived

↳ in reply to Andrew Mason

Andrew Mason wrote (26-10-2011 18:07):

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James Wynn wrote:

Not give the subsequent appearance of astral Oreb.

Oreb appears before Pike. Silk wakes up to see 'Oreb' flyibng out to the window, then, if I remember rightly, talks to Mucor for a while, then goes downstairs and talks to the real (contemporary) Oreb, then hears the bed creaking, comes upstairs again, and sees PIke. PIke and Oreb aren't together; and given that Silk only saw him flying out of the window, it;s not clear that it is Oreb at all.

One thing is certain, that episode is to be explained and not just dismissed.

James Wynn26 Oct 2011, 18:44as archived

↳ in reply to Andrew Mason

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Not given the subsequent appearance of astral Oreb.

On 10/26/2011 12:07 PM, Andrew Mason wrote: Oreb appears_before_ Pike. Silk wakes up to see 'Oreb' flyibng out to the window, then, if I remember rightly, talks to Mucor for a while, then goes downstairs and talks to the real (contemporary) Oreb, then hears the bed creaking, comes upstairs again, and sees PIke. PIke and Oreb aren't together; and given that Silk only saw him flying out of the window, it;s not clear that it is Oreb at all.

Yeah, when I wrote that I suspected it might have been the other way around--but I decided to just go for it. And here's why: The events are so closely connected in time it doesn't really matter. Andrew, I think you and I have discussed before that one wants more evidence than "Well, who else could it be?", but there really are a very limited number of night choughs in the Long/Short Sun story. Even if Silk had not discovered an astral old man in Pike's room, the existence of an astral Oreb would be a strong hint that the Rajan was nearby. J.