Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 From: Antonin Scriabin <kierkegaurdian at gmail.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS Message-ID: <CAM0v-i5K7dW_F15E9URqLBBeG5PAP=-GLmo4-DVpRNZ7OSbERw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course a reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness and simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian sense. But don't quote me. Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to get the full context. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow “utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope I can get some help here. THE HOUSE AZURE While I was undressing I said, ?Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the hierophants say,that only that is true. what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? -------------------------------------------- THE LAST YEAR I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? ----------------------------------------- DORCAS “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? ------------------------------------------ THE PLAY confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit atop the patroness of another If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and "patroness"mean?" -- Daniel Otto Jack Petersen _______________________________________________

On Mon, December 16, 2013 21:51, Eric Bourland wrote: Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue.

On 12/16/2013 11:46 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: Pale skin is also given to being called blue when chilled, but the cheeks are usually the last place in that condition, IMO.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 From: Antonin Scriabin <kierkegaurdian at gmail.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS Message-ID: <CAM0v-i5K7dW_F15E9URqLBBeG5PAP=-GLmo4-DVpRNZ7OSbERw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course a reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness and simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian sense. But don't quote me. Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to get the full context. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow “utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope I can get some help here. THE HOUSE AZURE While I was undressing I said, ?Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the hierophants say,that only that is true. what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? -------------------------------------------- THE LAST YEAR I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? ----------------------------------------- DORCAS “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? ------------------------------------------ THE PLAY confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit atop the patroness of another If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and "patroness"mean?" -- Daniel Otto Jack Petersen _______________________________________________

Eric Bourland wrote: I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every day. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or Mrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago. I would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's family. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a kid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that would be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this list doing anything similar? Eric ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Eric Bourland" <eb at hwaet.com> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue. ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: urth-request at lists.urth.net Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Send Urth mailing list submissions to urth at lists.urth.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to urth-request at lists.urth.net You can reach the person managing the list at urth-owner at lists.urth.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin) 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 From: Antonin Scriabin <kierkegaurdian at gmail.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS Message-ID: <CAM0v-i5K7dW_F15E9URqLBBeG5PAP=-GLmo4-DVpRNZ7OSbERw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course a reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness and simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian sense. But don't quote me. Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to get the full context. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:

Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand.

Hope I can get some help here.

THE HOUSE AZURE While I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the hierophants say,that only that is true. what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? -------------------------------------------- THE LAST YEAR I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? ----------------------------------------- DORCAS “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? ------------------------------------------ THE PLAY confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit atop the patroness of another If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and "patroness"mean?" -- Daniel Otto Jack Petersen _______________________________________________

On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Sergei SOLOVIEV <soloviev at irit.fr> wrote: I am not sure, but may be in this case it would be appropriate to sign some sort of card collectively? Sergei Soloviev Eric Bourland wrote:

I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every day. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or Mrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago. I would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's family. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a kid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that would be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this list doing anything similar? Eric ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Eric Bourland" <eb at hwaet.com> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue. ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: urth-request at lists.urth.net Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Send Urth mailing list submissions to urth at lists.urth.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to urth-request at lists.urth.net You can reach the person managing the list at urth-owner at lists.urth.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin) 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 From: Antonin Scriabin <kierkegaurdian at gmail.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS Message-ID: <CAM0v-i5K7dW_F15E9URqLBBeG5PAP=-GLmo4-DVpRNZ7OSbERw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course a reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness and simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian sense. But don't quote me. Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to get the full context. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:

Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope I can get some help here. THE HOUSE AZURE While I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the hierophants say,that only that is true. what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? -------------------------------------------- THE LAST YEAR I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? ----------------------------------------- DORCAS “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? ------------------------------------------ THE PLAY confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit atop the patroness of another If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and "patroness"mean?" -- Daniel Otto Jack Petersen _______________________________________________